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April 8, 2005Why wasn’t JPII put into the ground in a simple shroudSince today is 3 years since the very affecting funeral of John Paul II, thought I’d repost:
Sigh. Really, I am NOT an apologist. I have no energy for it, and don’t feel called to it as others do. But…thank you for your question. Look, I don’t know your background, or what your denomination is, but I’m assuming it’s “bible-based” and big on singing and short on liturgy, so maybe that’s what strikes you wrong. If I am wrong, please let me know. I’m at a loss to understand precisely what was offensive. Was it all the scripture contained in the readings and responses, throughout the mass, from Lord, have mercy… to Holy, Holy, Holy… to Lord, I am not worthy…? I can’t imagine that is what is troubling you. If what bothered you was the size and scope of the mass, well…it’s a global age. In Jesus’ time he managed to draw crowds numbering in the tens of thousands, but everyone was traveling by foot or camel. I think the crowd you saw today was proportionate to the means of travel and the avaliability of communications technology. So, again, I don’t understand what is troubling you. I gather, since you mention the burial of Christ, it is perhaps the burial of the pope, and the pomp preceeding it, which troubled you. A few points: Jesus was buried in the manner of a wealthy man of his time - in a private cave hewn for the purpose and originally purchased by Joseph of Arimathea, so it could be argued that outside of pyramids and King’s tombs, Jesus’ burial was not quite “humble” for the time, but rather the arrangements (though rushed for Passover) could be construed as slightly better than average. He was wrapped in a shroud because that’s what was done, and is still done in that part of the world. You could argue that the average American citizen who has a wake, then a funeral service, flowers, an expensive casket, pall bearers with dignified bearing, readings, grieving and a supper to follow, celebrating that person’s life, had a much more elaborate burial than Jesus, who was (IS) God. So what? Times and customs and cultures do have an effect on things. If a beloved family member of yours dies, are you going to limit his or her burial to a shroud and a howdy do, because that’s all Jesus got? Remember, when Jesus was buried, his apostles didn’t know he was God. They thought he was a prophet. They’d thought maybe he was the messiah, but then, you know…he didn’t come through with the liberation, etc, and he was tortured and killed and his followers went into hiding. They didn’t KNOW what they had, among them, until later. Had they known, well…who knows? The liturgy - that whole mass you saw today, beautifully sung, beautifully carried out, was not for John Paul, per se. Yes, it commended him to God and it celebrated his faithful service, but the liturgy was meant - as it is ALWAYS meant - for us. We are humans, and when something important happens, as the loss of a loved one, our hearts hunger for beauty as well as meaning, for beauty is another transcendent means to God. And so millions came to Rome to see off a servant of Christ, and for their efforts, they saw beauty, they heard and felt beauty, had the opportunity to pay their own tribute (”Sancto!”) and most importantly they got to to Commune with the Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Communion.You’ll notice that the people kneeling in St. Peters, on the cobblestone, were not kneeling for JPII; they were kneeling while Communing with the Lord. Liturgy does not only teach, it also entertains. That sounds wrong, but I mean it in a good way - it lifts our hearts, minds and spirits. If you belong to an Evangelical church, you probably have musicians and singers at your service, and that music they provide is uplifting, it brings another dimension to worship. Just so with the liturgy, and with all of that “pomp.” It is for us. JPII doesn’t care, he’s already in heaven! So he is remembered with love. He is dressed in fine robes (when we buried Grandma we put her in her best dress - what else?). His casket is incensed, because incense has been part of our worship left over from our Judaic roots. The angel in revelation disperses incense in an incensor, so I don’t think God has a problem with it. Then, after the mass, the Rite of Christian burial, his body was solemnly processed and lain to rest. It is all we would do for any of our loved ones, just on a scale calculated to uplift not just thirty or forty, but a couple billion. Is it the three caskets that is bothering you? Well, there are reasons for that. The first is that there have been times in the history of Christendom when bodies of priests and popes and saints have been disrespected by those who hate, and perhaps TOO venerated by those who love. Three caskets does sort of put the damper on that possibility! But there are other reasons, as well. The humble cypress casket is a symbol of humanity and humility. The leaden casket helps to slow the deterioration of the body. Why is this important? I dunno. Maybe some Italian Mama along the way - a precursor to the sort of Italian Mama who puts plastic on the sofa - gave people the heebiejeebies about the body getting damp! But the thing is, if and when a man or woman is being seriously considered for sainthood, their body is disinterred, and investigated. For a couple reasons - but mostly because there has been a curious phenomenon over the years, attending to these people, in that sometimes their bodies do not corrupt, at least not at the rate, or in the manner, of the rest of us. And it’s not true of ALL saints, but its been true of enough of them (some of whom were buried in pine boxes and mud, some of whom had floods in their graves) that you know…put him in a lead box, and we’ll see what we get in twenty years. And the last box, simple oak, simply contains his name and the dates of his pontificate. I don’t think ANY of this is a big deal. When Grandpa died, he was buried. His grave had a cement liner. It’s pretty much the same idea. Maybe it’s the culture - we’re all sticklers for tying things up neatly - but I don’t see the idolatry you’re talking about. And if you mean the crowds chanting “Sancto! Sancto!” Well…at my son’s high school, one of the athletes just died, tragically, of cancer. The funeral convoy drove past the school, and all of the students had assembled outside. They stood solemnly and then applauded and waved to the hearse and to his parents, shouting his name, his hockey number, and saying, “We’ll miss you! Your son was great!” and other such things. Was that idolatry, or a simple, heartfelt last opportunity to praise a much-loved student? It’s just a tribute. No one left St. Peter’s today having WORSHIPPED Karol Wojtyla, and no one left there unsure of who is the Savior of the world. But…they did leave St. Peter’s with full hearts, having had a chance to do what my son’s classmates did for their fallen friend, to remember and pay a little tribute, and they got to do it surrounded by visual and aural beauty so that all of their senses participated in the Worship of God. Again, I just don’t see the problem. But I’m glad you wrote to me about your concerns, and I hope I helped put them to rest. If I haven’t all I can say is…I’m not that smart. Someone else may do much better! Don’t be so afraid of a little liturgy. BE NOT AFRAID! PS…speaking only for myself, that funeral today made me long to hear more (or, ANY) Gregorian Chant at mass. I really hunger for it. Enough of the feel-good campfire-type songs, please! http://theanchoressonline.com/2005/04/08/why-wasnt-jpii-put-into-the-ground-in-a-simple-shroud/trackback/ 38 Responses to “Why wasn’t JPII put into the ground in a simple shroud” |
April 9th, 2005 at 8:58 am
Anchoress, I agree. That music was literally divine, and suitable for divine liturgy. Humans surely don’t need any encouragement to ‘dumb things down;’ the more invitations to nobility we have, the better.
April 9th, 2005 at 7:16 pm
Love the new site, (thanks to Jeanette for pointing me here).
I agree on the post and especially the point of the chants. I am soooooo tired of “experimenting” the doxology……..
Ed R-
April 10th, 2005 at 4:12 am
I love liturgy - the more the better. We Orthodox Christians have plenty of it - no campfire songs for us!
April 10th, 2005 at 4:13 am
I think the question was specific to the issue of the clothing JPII was wearing. Far more ornate and costly than a simple shroud. Of course, so is a fine suit which is what most American men, Catholic, Protestant, Jew or heathen will be buried in…
April 10th, 2005 at 5:46 am
Amen! I too find it hard to get up the patience and energy to explain the Catholic view to my many Baptist friends here in Southern Maryland…But, if the interest is sincere, read George Weigel’s “Letters to a Young Catholic”, an outstanding book which explains many of the things that seem to spook non-Catholics as well as an education FOR Catholics in general.
April 10th, 2005 at 6:46 am
Hi,
I don’t know if this will help but I did notice in JPII’s will he requested to be burried in “the earth” :
“In regard to the funeral, I repeat the same dispositions which were given by the Holy Father Paul VI [here he notes on the margin: grave in the earth, not in a sarcophagus]”
His will does show his great humility.
About his garments. Popes are burried in red because red is the color of the apostles and martyrs. Popes used to say the funeral mass in red and there was a corresponding saying, “The Pope weeps in red.”
God Bless
Mary
April 10th, 2005 at 6:48 am
Well said!!! If I ever have time to blog again, I’m linking to this.
April 10th, 2005 at 6:59 am
As a sympathetic observer of Christianity, I just want to say that this is a lovely post, Anchoress, in tone and substance.
Also, a couple of new-site-related comments:
1. I can’t figure out how to get back to your main page from an individual post page except by using my browser’s Back button.
2. I can’t figure out how to send you an email, which is why I said #1 in this comment.
April 10th, 2005 at 7:02 am
I had the same thought about the singing - we NEVER get to hear that in our masses anymore!! The only time I hear Gregorian chanting is when I play my CD’s, never at my church. Why can’t our regular masses have more of the artistic beauty for which Catholics are known for?
April 10th, 2005 at 7:12 am
I agree with the point about Gregorian Chant. But much of what is made these days is overwrought and seems to be competing to qualify as background music to the spooky scenes in some movies.
Remember that an English eqivalent, and a name in general for that type of singing, is “plainsong”. I wish it were kept that way.
April 10th, 2005 at 7:52 am
Richard…that’s okay, I can’t figure out how to post my email address, yet, or how to get back to the main page, either. We’ll have to learn together!
My email, if anyone is interested, is theanchoress@gmail.com
Mary Beth and David - I think many, many people are wondering, after that funeral, why Gregorian chant was thrown out “baby and bathwater” so to speak after the second vat council. The council’s recommendation was for balance between old and new, but somehow old got completely tossed…but from what I heard after mass tonight, people want it back, on some level! Good news.
April 10th, 2005 at 8:08 am
I did love the Gregorian chant, but I really loved the Greek chant, “Christos Anesti”.
April 10th, 2005 at 8:55 am
Thank you Anchoress, for your most generous explanation.
If you love liturgy, the Orthodox Pashka - (Easter) is still before us (May 1st). Having been reared as a Catholic, I have a some understanding of the Catholic Mass and tradition. As a recent Orthodox convert, I find the liturgy, the music (accapella - 4 part) and the tradition ancient and beautiful. And strangely enough, it makes the Mass appear to be “liturgy lite”.
Come to the vigil Saturday night - taste and see!
April 10th, 2005 at 9:02 am
I too. miss all of the pomp & ceremony of old Catholic services. I say that, and am not an active Catholic, and don’t attend. But I do have fond memories of a Midnight Mass in Latin, with heavy incense, chants, and all the toppings. It was Grand Ceremony.
April 10th, 2005 at 9:02 am
be not afraid to dispense with smileys
April 10th, 2005 at 10:09 am
Zach Foreman: I agree about the Christos Anesti. I was raised Greek Orthodox, but haven’t observed in many, many years. When I heard that being sung during the service yesterday, a chill went down my spine and I was transported back to the midnight Easter services of my childhood. I’ll be attending services on Sunday, for the first time in years.
If you’re interested in the music and words of Christos Anesti, you can go here.
More generally, Joseph Campbell has suggested that the pomp and majesty of the Catholic and Orthodox services are designed precisely to make you aware that you are NOT in an everyday situation, but in a special place reserved for worship. In other words, it is specifically designed to overwhelm the senses. Personally, I thought the mass was exquisitely beautiful and meaningful.
April 10th, 2005 at 10:56 am
I just wanted to chime in on the Gregorian chant sentiment expressed here. I am a seminarian in Denver, in 1st philosophy, and we have a chant schola that performs at the major liturgies of the diocese and often at the seminary. There is a general sympathy among the seminarians for chant and a real love of it among some of us. So hopefully we can help revive chant for those who desire it, introduce it to those who have never heard it at Mass, and present it to people as something that can be done in parishes. Chant is certainly not incompatible with the revised rite of the Mass.
There are chant settings that are well within the grasp of choirs and the assembled people. One other little note, I recall how our director explained that the reason for all those “extra” notes in a chant is that the origin of the more ornate chanting, descended from Jewish practice, was ecstatic prayer. These extra notes are the inexpressible longings that only the Holy Spirit can communicate to us. When I chant and sing the notes prayerfully it is a wonderful and profound experience; something that more people should have the opportunity to enter into!
April 10th, 2005 at 11:29 am
Hello, Don’t forget JP2 recycled a grave…he didn’t even get a new one…how’s that for humble and conservative!
I think the initial questioner has Protestant goggles on. See when I was still a Lutheran, there was this underlined fear/ skepticism of everything Catholic. It’s hard to describe but they don’t even realize to what degree they are afraid or scornful of Catholicism. It’s like Catholic is a bad word, thus everything else Catholic is bad too. It was not uncommon to see someone had crossed out the word catholic in the Nicene or Apostle’s Creed as it was printed the Luthern prayer books. In the place of the crossed out word, catholic, they would scratch over Christian…and a lot of folks would say it that way too…all cause they feared being anything like a Catholic. But there is a distinction between the lower case and upper case word.
I’m so glad I figured out that the true meaning of the word means being Catholic. All the things I once feared I now embrace as the greatest sorce of Truth. The best part is Catholicism is Biblical…Scott Hahn showed me that.
Anchoress, your response was more respectful that I could have been, thanks for being such a great Catholic example!
Take Care,
Susanna
April 10th, 2005 at 5:01 pm
Combining the old and the new, perhaps the Church could be convinced to introduce to the Mass … Gregorian Rap.
April 10th, 2005 at 7:17 pm
“…but I’m assuming it’s “bible-based” and big on singing and short on liturgy.”
Heh. Nice put-down.
April 10th, 2005 at 7:40 pm
Well if folks want to hear the Gregorian chant, and to see and hear how the Mass should be, then search for and attend a Tridentine Mass. Ask your parish priest why a Tridentine Mass cann’t be done in your parish. Is there a reason why the bishops across the country resist so strongly the saying of the Tridentine Mass? And if they do approve it (based upon the JPII’s indult) why is it restricted to a single parish?
April 11th, 2005 at 4:32 am
For some of us, nature and beauty are our portals to God. Gregorian chant has always been among the most beautiful creations of the Catholic. That’s why I worship at an Episcopalean convent and monastery. There’s chant and beautiful music every time I go to Mass.
You might want to consider dropping the smileys as they reek too much of the folksongs you deplore. With so much beautiful art created for the Church and not copyrighted.
April 11th, 2005 at 5:27 am
Aha! I found you at last!
Excellent response to the question. I hear complainst about the quality of music in the average Catholic church a lot. This ought to be an easy one to fix given the long tradition of great music in the church. Perhaps the funeral will be an inspiration to folks at the local level. How much control do the parishes and dioceses have over the liturgy? In the Episcopal church we’re very committed to the old music, and most parishes perform as much as their budget will allow.
A few of the Catholics in my family have mentioned that if the local Mass was as good as these Vatican masses, there’d be no standing room in the churches.
April 11th, 2005 at 5:57 am
For many years I only went to Mass when I went home to visit my parents. One Sunday I decided to go to Mass at a small church next to where I lived and since then I have attended weekly Mass. I am not sure what it says about the strength of my faith, but it is the more traditional presentation of the liturgy that keeps me coming back. Specifically:
Strong choir singing in the traditional manner (like the music at JPII funeral)
Organ and brass instruments only – no guitars or piano at this church
Portions of the Mass in Latin/Greek/French (Kyrie eleison, Gloria in excelsis…)
Gregorian Chants are often a part of the Mass
Cantor singing the second reading and chanting the intercessions
A lot of incense
Visual presentation - for example, during holy week the church is stripped to give a barren feel, and then on Easter Sunday you step into a church that is overflowing with flowers
It is not a Latin Mass; it is a Mass that beautifully melds the old with the new. I feel so lucky to have stumbled across this church. I am not saying that all Masses should be this way, but I wish more dioceses would offer these alternatives.
April 11th, 2005 at 10:51 pm
I have never been a practicing Christian. I am not a Catholic, although I graduated from Notre Dame University. My wife (a devout lutheran) tells me that I have an obvious deep faith in God, and live my life by a strict set of moral rules no different than what’s found in the Bible. Still I have had a deep mistrust of organized religion.
The death of John Paul II has affected me deeply. The message of the Lord that JP2 communicated so well, ‘Be Not Afraid’ has resonated within my soul and my being more deeply this last week than I can say in words. His funeral was beautiful. The gregorian chants melancholy and uplifting at the same time.
Something has changed for me. I want to feel this connection to God and renew it again and again. No church is perfect. This I know. Protestant or Catholic, I do not believe the Lord cares which path we take to Him only that we follow that path and strive with all our hearts and actions to be true to Him. I believe that John Paul II would be happy knowing that his example helped bring me closer to God.
April 12th, 2005 at 4:18 am
H/T to LaShawn Barber for letting me find you!
A couple of comments on Mass, Gregorian chant, etc., etc. This comment is long and I beg the Anchoress’ indulgence…
I remember Latin Masses. The only time we sung at a regular Mass was “Holy God We Praise Thy Name” at the end. When I started Catholic school (First Grade), we learned “Tantum Ergo” and “Pange Lingua” (yes, I know I’ve misspelled them–it’s been awhile!) phonetically. In Third Grade, we began to learn Gregorian chant in Latin. In Fifth or Sixth Grade, we began to learn the same chants in English. Trust me, it doesn’t “scan” the same! And it’s ~very~ easy to do Gregorian chant badly, especially if the presiding priest can’t sing.
Pre-Vatican II masses were “spectator” sports for the most part. The priest “led” the congregation in prayers, which is why his back was towards us. Altar boys (no girls allowed) answered in Latin for the congregation. The choir, when there was one, sang and the congregation listened. I was lucky–the sister who taught the boys the Latin responses thought it was a good idea that we girls learn it, too, so we would know what was going on.
The changes in the Mass came down slowly over the years. Much depended on the attitude of the pastor and the bishop. The music at my home parish varies considerably from Mass to Mass, with the Youth Mass featuring drums, electric guitars, and keyboards, the Spanish Mass featuring mariachis, the 9:00 a.m. kind of acoustic/folkish, and 10:30 a.m. & 12:15 p.m. middle-of-the-road with just a simple organ or piano. If “singing is praying twice,” then the congregation should have a chance and be encouraged to join in the music, especially on a regular basis. Mass is NOT a spectator sport, which it very often was before 1967.
April 12th, 2005 at 6:28 am
GREAT!
loved the answer.
i agree.
April 12th, 2005 at 5:34 pm
Reading some of the comments about music at Mass, I had to comment….I must also note that I’m 33, so I wasn’t around for the Latin Mass.
I’ve particpated in the choir at church most of my childhood and for the last five years since I moved back to the US from Europe. When I was young (6th grade through high school) our church had a folksy sound at Mass - probably because the church music director was also the guitarist and I don’t recall us ever doing anything in Latin. I didn’t think much of it one way or the other, probably because I didn’t know what I was missing (although I did learn some of my favorite hymns during that time - my all-time favorite is “Be Not Afraid”, which has been going through my head for the last week since I heard about the Holy Father’s passing)
At my current church, we do a mix of music. Since we are in Texas, we do our fair share of Spanish hymns (or mixed English/Spanish), Latin hymns that are centuries old (on Palm Sunday, except for “All Glory Laud And Honor” and the Mass setting, all the hymns were in Latin, the most recent of which was 4 centuries old), and chant. Our previous pastor (a young conservative-style priest who heard the calling under John Paul II) had us institute the Gregorian Agnus Dei as a regular part of Mass last summer during Ordinary Time and our new pastoral administrator (who so far seems to be cut from the same conservative cloth as our previous priest) chants the Preface and first half of the Eucharistic Prayer (in English and he does have a wonderful voice) and has started having us chant the Our Father (again, in English - perhaps once the congregation gets a hang of it, we can try the Pater Noster Gregorian chant). During Lent, our Mass setting is Missa Oecumenica, which is a 4-part a cappella piece (in English) based on a Russian Orthodox Mass setting. The setting isn’t really a chant, but it sounds chant-like since it is based on a chant. An eclectic mix, but it seems to work for us (both the choir and the congregation).
April 12th, 2005 at 7:19 pm
I know what you mean about having more chanting in the liturgy. I belong to a ultra orthodox Anglican church (yes, that is possible ;-)) We have chanting often in our church and we are blessed with at least two singers with wonderfully pure voices. Our church is small and humble but at these times it is transformed into that foretaste of heaven that all worship and all houses of worship are meant to be.
But I also like the balance that we have under our new parish musician. The choir sings the hard, ancient stuff that gives us the good chills while the congregation gets to belt out the wonderful hymns of the relatively more recent evangelical tradition like Amazing Grace etc.
I’m not sure what “camp fire” songs in church sound like. It must be a Catholic thing (?), but it doesn’t sound like a good thing. Are they a little like Kumbaya? Yeeesh! In that case, you guys really do need a change
April 12th, 2005 at 7:23 pm
I know what you mean about having more chanting in the liturgy. I belong to a ultra orthodox Anglican church (yes, that is possible ;-)) We have chanting often in our church and we are blessed with at least two singers with wonderfully pure voices. Our church is small and humble but at these times it is transformed into that foretaste of heaven that all worship and all houses of worship are meant to be.
But I also like the balance that we have under our new parish musician. The choir sings the hard, ancient stuff that gives us the good chills while the congregation gets to belt out the wonderful hymns of the relatively more recent evangelical tradition like Amazing Grace etc.
I’m not sure what “camp fire” songs in church sound like. It must be a Catholic thing (?), but it doesn’t sound like a good thing. Are they a little like Kumbaya? Yeeesh! In that case, you guys really do need a change
April 12th, 2005 at 7:25 pm
Here is how bad it is. There is one song that - whenever I hear it, I think Green eggs and ham. The lyrics are. I am here, here I am.
It makes me nuts.
By “campfire” songs, I mean…well, I can’t describe it. The melodies - if they can be called that - are simiplistic and they are usually 3-chord specials - music dumbed down.
It’s so awful there are no words!
April 12th, 2005 at 7:32 pm
PS. I was just reading the post right above mine and it reminded me of something that I sometimes take for granted in my church. Our priests sing just about the entire Mass. I sometimes forget that this is a bit unusual outside of the Orthodox tradition. But if you ask me, I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I think more churches should make the effort if they can. It adds so much to worship. It adds such a sense of solemnity and dignity and it doesn’t have to mean that fun or lightheartedness gets banished from worhip either. Our priests leaven the seriousness with humor in their sermons and a relaxed and down to earth manner when they make the annoucements. We laugh alot in the appropriate time and place and we are serious and respectful in all else.
April 12th, 2005 at 7:42 pm
I should also explain where I came from. Before I found my current church, I belonged to a liberal Baptist church that made everything up from week to week. The worst of all was the opening prayer each week. I think that prayer was probably the equivalent of camp fire music. I couldn’t say it half the time with out gagging at at least one point. The other half of the time, I wouldn’t be able to keep from laughing at it. It was awful but it certainly made me appreciate the real thing when I saw it. I lapped up proper liturgy like someone starved and dehydrated for a long time.
April 13th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Well said. I am a catholic, and some of my non-catholic friends were critical of John Paul’s funeral mass and burial. They accused catholics of practicing a form of idolatry in “worshipping” the Pope and ranted about how the catholic church is “outdated” etc etc. It can be difficult to explain the meaning and beauty of the catholic mass and certain catholic traditions (including the significance and role of the pope) to people who do not understand it. And I too could definitely do without the camp-fire songs at mass.
June 30th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
I wonder how mad the apostles would have been if they truely celebrated, with a liturgy and all the visible fixins, and had a golden sarcofogus(sp) with which to entomb our lord… only to find him missing three days later, LOL!!!
October 2nd, 2005 at 7:45 pm
I’m a Baptist and unlike peggy I have never been to a service where we recited a prayer with the pastor at the beginning, middle or end of the service. Then again I’m not a liberal Baptist. I also happen to love Christian music that is glorifying God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Old songs like “The Old Rugged Cross”, “At Calvary”, “Blessed Assurance” “Have Thine Own Way, Lord” “Amazing Grace” and many others I can think of. I doubt these are included in the Anchoress’ list of campfire songs.
October 6th, 2005 at 11:46 am
Good response to an honest question. I learned from it, Anchoress. I, too, was uncomfortable with all the Pomp, but I do understand it. Your denomination has different rituals from mine.
But we are both simply Christians, and it’s the WORD that is important to you and I. There’s certainly room in our Faith for Catholics and non-Catholics. For Orthodox and Roman. For Lutherans and Baptists.
JPII was a fine Shepherd of his Flock.
December 3rd, 2007 at 2:34 pm
[...] A non-catholic wondered about the funeral, and if it was “idolatry”. [...]