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November 18, 2005Pull-out? The deaths will be on your headI’m reading a lot about the growing call for America to pull out of Iraq. There’s lots of ways to debate the war, and whether or not we ever should have entered Iraq. But the fact is, whether one thinks we should be there or not, we are there. We have deposed Saddam. We have liberated a people who are now trying to chisel out their freedom and democracy, while being threatened by brutes and bullies within their borders. They are moving forward. In order to succeed they need two things. They need time - to train their forces and police and to get their political infrastructure established. They need reassurance that America will not desert them when their success is so tantalizingly close. In order for the Iraq move to Democracy to fail and to descend into murderous chaos, the insurgents need only two things, too. They need the press and the politicians to continue to dwell on negatives and call for withdrawal of our troops. They need to see America “end this war” not in victory but in turmoil and shame. To cut and run. And they need the troops to abandon the people. Just like, you know, Vietnam. Then they can create their own Killing Fields. And America can descend into isolationist revelry for as long as she lasts - which will not be long, because a great nation that has spilled its blood for freedom will have now twice been seen to lack the spirit to finish what it has begun. A nation that cannot keep its committments cannot be trusted to lead, and if America does not lead, she will die, for she will never follow. Right now, the insurgents are being vastly encouraged by what they read coming out of the mouths of Democrats and reporters, and even, sadly the Republicans. The message they are being given is: Just be patient. Just hold out a little while, and America will be gone, and you will re-gain control.. Just wait-out Bush. You who want to play politics with this war, wishing to abandon the people of Iraq merely to shame a president you hate and do a bit of crowing, just be ready to take responsibility for what comes after. Understand that when the inevitable deaths occur in Iraq, and elsewhere, at the hands of these insurgents, and at the hands of a rejuvenated Al Qaeda, that the blood of every victim thereafter will then be on your heads, as will the blood of all 2065 of our service people whose sacrifice will be rendered meaningless by your action. If America pulls out without victory - without the Iraqis being capable of defending themselves - then every death from insurgents or terrorists - all over the world - will have to be a death counted upon the heads of those who would not allow a serious War on Terror to continue and succeed, simply because to do so would “reflect too well” on a man they hate. The blood of innocents is a heavy, heavy stain - it will not easily be washed away. No one likes war. But we cannot pull-out in Iraq without victory. If we do, then the War on Terror will be lost on every front - the West will wholly and utterly become the “weak horse” that first tempted Osama bin Laden. You folks demanding that we leave Iraq without completing the mission - be ready to bear the cost - be ready to wear the blood of every terrorist victim in Bali, Seattle, Malaysia, Miami, Los Angeles, Paris, Las Vegas, Spain, New York, Chicago, Holland, London, Belfast and Berlin, for it will stain and it will stick, and it will remain. Our troops are not disheartened by their work, but by the insufficient support of their own nations politicians, and by their own media’s unwillingness to champion them, or to at least give them a bit of decent press. They see the Iraqi’s tasting freedom and they write home in frustration at the fact that the good this nation and her troops has done is all but ignored. After Hurricane Katrina rolled through New Orleans, the levees broke. They should not have broken, no one wanted them to break, but they broke, nevertheless. The response to the levees breaking could not be a foot-stomping tantrum about how the levees should not have broken and a demand that the water - the whole situation - simply be made to go away. The circumstances were what they were, and the pragmatic, grown-up response had to be: the levees have broken, the water is here, and we will expend the time and energy necessary to drain, clear, sweep and rebuild. None of which will happen overnight. Maturity and pragmatism demand that America remain in Iraq until she is no longer needed there. And it demands further that the supposed grown-ups who voted for the war remain loyal to the troops and Iraqi civilians who are halfway to victory - to help them across the last deep valley, rather than abandoning them because the terrain is rough. Pretending that a bad situation can be “fixed” by running away from it is what adolescents do. America has a choice, right now, and it is a choice only America can make. It can stand firm and deliver this child of freedom struggling to be born, or it can abandon Iraq for a stillbirth. And whichever choice America makes for Iraq, it will share in its aftermath. America can choose life or death. It is that fundamental. This underreported story is why we cannot leave: 173 Sunnis freed from secret Iraqi torture bunker UPDATE: Hmmm…Siggy and I are on the same wavelength. Feels like we’re talking to the wind, though. Also on the same wavelength: Gateway Pundit who lays it all out, and Stefania and lawhawk. Mona Charen has a good piece on The Cut and Run Party. (h/t Bernard) http://theanchoressonline.com/2005/11/18/pull-out-the-deaths-will-be-on-your-head/trackback/ 43 Responses to “Pull-out? The deaths will be on your head” |
November 18th, 2005 at 11:05 am
Once you decide on a military option, you have to see it through, there really isn’t any other choice. Everytime we have stopped before we were finished (or not really given full effort) we have put ourselves in a difficult situation later.
We have to finish this.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:28 am
A
Cheer up. There have already been plans to “pull out” - of course after victory - coming following Dec election.
This “pullout” plan has been “leaked” a year ago - it is iminent, but not before victory - which is iminent.
But the Dems plan to grandstand about this, sabre-rattle, then take credit for a “pullout” that Bush et al have planned all along.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:29 am
Newsflash to the Dems: We are still in Bosnia.
Remember the run-up to the war? The Left was saying that we should not attack Iraq because George Bush could not be counted on to do what is required and stay the course over the period of time necessary(years, they said) to establish a stable government. They said the result would be civil war and a country far more dangerous to the region than the Saddam regime. Go back and dig up all the “Charlie Rose” tapes from late 2002-early 2003. And those Sunday morning shows. One “expert” after another…
Fast-forward to 2005. Bush has stayed the course, promoting democracy and stability in the region at the cost of American lives and political capital. Dems have conveniently forgotten what they said before the war and our “impartial” press isn’t there to remind them.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:33 am
Right after 9-11 I recall lots of discussion (still very much within a 90’s dot.com ‘frame’) about how much Islamofascist terror was going to cost us, i.e., how much of a drag it was going to be on the world economy. That question has not gone away. The instant the first plane hit the WTC, there was going to be a cost. Heck, the moment “students” took over the U.S. embasssy in Tehran in 1979 there was going to be a cost.
Now we’re faced with a cost that’s easy for the press to measure (dollars, lives) versus a cost that any imbecile knows is going to be a lot larger but which is still in the future and thus much harder to assess as precisely.
Yes, it is the adolescent who runs from a problem (debt, a failed course, an unwanted pregnancy, a drunken car crash, etc.) thinking that that will minimize the cost. Mature adults work out their debt. Adults go to their teacher, get help and study harder to pass next time. Adults face up to the responsibilities of letting their sex drives run wild. Adults don’t flee the scene of an accident - much less a fatal one, say, on Martha’s Vineyard- and hire some clever lawyer to get them off of a DWI rap on a technicality. Adults bear the hard costs up front because they know that the long-term costs of fleeing are much much higher.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:55 am
I tend to think of Susan Sontag as a archtypical leftist because her feelings were so obviously dictated by her ideology. To judge by her writing, she felt what her ideas told her to feel, and nothing else. There was something weird about it, as if she found it erotic to publicly intellectually tie herself up and compel herself to recite doctrine, “and this time, with real feeling!”
The left feels nothing bad about stabbing our armed forces, our allies, and millions of people in the Mideast, in the back. The left feels nothing about it and is unable to wake up to it as an issue. The left sees only good flowing from nobody’s ever again — not after Vietnam & then, 30 years later, Iraq — trusting the USA to stand by its commitments. Far fewer will stick their necks out for freedom if we back out. The left feels only good flowing from the resultant destruction of military morale, the discouragement of movements for liberty, civility, and just plain sanity in the Muslim world, and the revival and installment of the Vietnam Syndrome as part of American character once and for all. The left does not care about the millions in Iraq who would be killed or maimed in a terrorist war supported by Syria and Iran upon our too-early withdrawal.
November 18th, 2005 at 12:00 pm
Did I say that far fewer will stick their necks out for freedom if we back out?
I should have said:
Far fewer will ever again stick their necks out for freedom if we back out — fewer here by joining the armed forces, and far fewer around the world in dangerous places, and far fewer of those who, even in safe places, must decide their plans and place their bets.
November 18th, 2005 at 3:32 pm
“Then they can create their own Killing Fields.”
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Unfortunately, the Left has never accepted responsibility that their actions (or lack thereof) caused the Killing Fields in Vietnam and Cambodia. Nor will they in Iraq. Because, you see, we must “respect” each and every culture and “let the people decide” if they want democracy or dictatorship.
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Of course, quite often “the people” don’t have a choice. Their decision is handed to them by fiat from The Stronger.
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But, hey man, we’re at peace…
November 18th, 2005 at 3:41 pm
THANKS, HERE’S SOMETHING TO LEAVE YOU WITH
Much thanks to Michelle for letting me guest blog here this week and to her wonderful readers for their kind emails. If you enjoyed my posts here this week, please visit Polipundit, where I blog daily along with four guys…
November 18th, 2005 at 3:48 pm
Anyone with normal human emotions would feel their heart clutch at the prospect of abandoning our friends in Iraq to the vengeance of the terrorists. I don’t think most of those on the left are even bothered by the thought of what would happen to these people.
So, maybe they don’t have normal human emotions. I keep thinking of the C S Lewis’ novel “That Hideous Strength”, in which the principal character is captured by a sinister cabal and is put through a process of training which is aimed at killing “all specifically human reactions” in a person.
And I wonder: Is the killing of the “specifically human reactions” in a person the effect of higher education–especially graduate education–as often carried out today? Because there is a very high correlation between the possession of graduate degrees (in non-scientific subjects) and such attitudes of emotional coldness.
November 18th, 2005 at 4:43 pm
Two notes:
1) Anybody see the torture chamber the US raided that was run by the Iraqi Interior Ministry?
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20051116-121614-5775r.htm
The Washington Times has had a number of stories on it over the past few days, including today.
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20051117-095201-6504r.htm
At first I wondered why the rest of the news media was ignoring this story, given that atrocities by an American ally during the war should be BIG news, on the order of Abu Ghraib. This isn’t just a few out-of-control soldiers, this is a systematic effort at repression — by our allies.
But then I realized: It’s because it would interfere with the agenda that (IMO) they are trying to push, which is: Leave Iraq now.
And I don’t believe that’s remotely feasible while this is going on. To leave now would be to abandon the Sunnis — our enemies — to terror by Shiites. We have the same situation as we did pre-2003, except that instead of Saddam we now have to deal with a repressive dictatorship that is an Iranian ally.
That would be an INCREDIBLY foolish move on every single level: Geopolitical, strategic, and moral.
And that’s why this story is buried — because it reveals clearly why we CANNOT leave now unless we want to abandon to dictatorship the people we set out to help.
————
However, there is one other point on which I must (slightly) disagree …
“Pretending that a bad situation can be “fixed” by running away from it is what adolescents do.”
As a person who has worked with battered women and children of abuse, I will state categorically that there are some situations that can ONLY be addressed by getting out of the situation ASAP. Just wanted that on record.
The situation on Iraq, of course, is nothing like that.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
November 18th, 2005 at 4:47 pm
I have always said that we should have gone after the people who attacked us (Al-Qaeder) instead of a country who didn’t attack us. Winning the war in Iraq will not stop terrorism around the world which the terrorists have proved recently in Jordan, Egypt and London.
November 18th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
Okay…but be that as it may, we are THERE now. Do we cut and run and leave these people in a lurch, to their murderers? No way. We can debate whether or not we should be there forever. You can impeach Bush later. Right now, we HAVE to stay and fight. We owe these people that.
November 18th, 2005 at 5:20 pm
The Queen of Clubs
I’m the Queen of Clubs!
[Credit and many thanks for the following to Goldeneagle at deviantART!]
“All right Jester, why are you helping us?”
“When the Kings summon armies and Jacks sharpen weapons a merrymaker stays to cheer those who re…
November 18th, 2005 at 5:27 pm
I did some “Combat Math” over on my blog to help put the number of deaths of US Military in Iraq in perspective:
http://marchhareshouse.blogspot.com/2005/11/combat-math.html
November 18th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
Tonight The House will vote to pull the Troops from Iraq. We should consider every vote in favor of a pull out as a vote for complete surrender. I will send My Representative a white flag if he votes yes. What about you…will you do the same???
I posted this to wrong thread earlier.
kelleyb
November 18th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
Just what does the world think it’s in for if the US withdraws its legions and Pax Americana comes to an end? That’s precisely what defeat in Iraq amounts to.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:18 pm
The leftists whom I know don’t talk, act, or feel cold — in fact they tend to rant and shout and stomp. But their feelings are according to some sort of rules. Feel this on this sugject, don’t feel that on that subect, etc., as if in accordance with the pronunciamentos of some intellectual dominatrix. There is some sort of numbness or coldness in there, and they cultivate wells of energetic hatred about certain things in order enliven themselves.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:44 pm
America can choose life or death. It is that fundamental.
-”America” is not going to do any such thing. America is going to elect representatives in a little less than a year. That is all America is going to do.
-The President is almost certainly not going to pull out troops immediately and unilaterally, and no House “resolution”, even should it happen to pass, will force him to. I will be polite and say that the President will be “stern and resolute”, and not make a peep about why.
-But of course the resolution will not pass. If there was even the slightest chance of it passing, the House Republican leadership would not have forced this showdown. It is all theater.
-This is all a ploy to squeeze the adrenal glands of the conservative base, so they will raise a large hullabaloo. If this blog is any indication, it appears to be working.
-Will the hullabaloo be effective? Will it help keep Republican control of Congress? Maybe. But the odds are narrowing.
-It is about the fourth or fifth time such a hullabaloo has been raised, and in the interval we have seen several more Operation Bah Humbugs which have left the insurgency exactly in the same place it was before.
-Murtha and McCain are looking at two sides of the same coin, and it is a coin that no one else is looking at at all. The all voluteer military is slowly coming unraveled under the pressure of a war where the only real options are stalemate or withdrawal.
-The Republican Congress and President can find about five times more troops somewhere (I’ll let you guess where), occupy Iraq, and take the chance that enough troops to actually suppress the insurgency won’t turn the rest of Iraq against us.
-They can continue to run Operation Bah Humbugs indefinitely and ineffectively while our overall military operational readiness degrades, the Iranians keep shadowboxing us away from their nuclear bomb progress, and the Chinese military power grows.
-Or they can declare “victory” and withdraw strategically sometime between the end of next August and the begining of next November.
-Those are the real options.
-All the rest is theater. And we can all sit back and wait for another honorable veteran to have his name and service professionally smeared and libeled. He will be the third to have it done to him.
November 18th, 2005 at 7:46 pm
When the US pulled out of Viet Nam, within six months the North overran the South, making the entire country Communist, when freedom had been in their grasp. The far left WANTS the same thing to happen in Iraq. After all, so many of them have already made it clear they supported Saddam in the first place.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:19 pm
Who on earth is smearing Murtha himself?
All that the Dems can do is whine and snivel that calling Murtha’s plan “cut & run” is an Insult to a Brave Man. I see, so we can’t debate it honestly lest we insult Murtha. We must withdraw from Iraq lest we insult Murtha. How dare anybody suggest that Murtha would call for cutting and running. Tell that to the terrorists, Donkeycrats! Let’s hear the Dems say, “oh those terrorists, they better not suggest that the US is cutting and running, they would be smearing MURTHA if they did that! They wouldn’t dare!”
And the Dem political types wouldn’t have us pull quickly out of Iraq even if they thought that the people would support it? Sorry, I know too many Dem political types and leftists to fall for that garbage.
And the terrorists will think and say that it’s cutting & running, and won’t give a hoot about whether Dems feel insulted on behalf of the mighty Murtha. Maybe they’ll develop a special behading technique and name it after him.
And our troops will have died for what?
And our allies will ever trust us again when? How many Americans or others around the world will stick their necks out for freedom ever again?
Wouldn’t the left looooove that.
The Bush Administration already has a plan for phased withdrawals starting in 2006, and this was already leaked a while back. The Dems might like to try to claim credit for forcing Bush’s hand, but they may succeed only in encouraging the terrosists and causing delays, costs, and bloodshed.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:44 pm
The Bush Administration already has a plan for phased withdrawals starting in 2006, and this was already leaked a while back.
Yes, and once upon a time they also had a “mission accomplished” in a war which was supposed to be over. Condoleeza and the boys are not that big on follow-through.
But maybe they will do it. If so, look for it to be timed as strategicly and intelligently as I have suggested above. And if they do, it will occur whether or not the Iraqis almost “have freedom in their grasp”.
Just like the Republican administration, elected in a landslide, that withdrew from Vietnam.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:47 pm
Isolationism as a strategy will never work. It never has worked. But certainly post 9-11 we should all realize that we simply cannot be isolated from the rest of the world. They will come to us.
November 18th, 2005 at 8:58 pm
Jeez, “Mission Accomplished” was a banner thought up by Tommie Franks for a specific occasion. There’s a difference between a banner and policy, not that I’d expect a leftist to know it.
What destroyed South Vietnam was not the US withdrawal but the cutoff of funds by the Democrat Congress. The withdrawal combined the fund cutoff destroyed the US repuation.
But remember, it’s all a “farce,” people aren’t really in danger, right? Some obviously never really cared, despite all their insane talk of a “humanitarian catastrophe” killing many hundreds of thousands, even millions, as a result of the invasion, and despite all the thousands actually killed whom they claim to bemoan.
The Dems and Leftists can’t bear for the GOP, the religious, the free-enterpisers, to carry the torch of liberty. Stalin could never stand for classical liberals to do so either.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
Unfortunately, the Left has never accepted responsibility that their actions (or lack thereof) caused the Killing Fields in Vietnam and Cambodia
MarchHare, you’re right. I know scads of boomers who still think the greatest, noblest thing they ever did in their life was to protest the Vietnam War and burn their draft cards. Mention the boat people and the killing fields and they’ll shrug or find a way to blame it on Nixon (who, of course, had resigned by that point.)
They are utterly incapable (or completely unwilling) to see cause and effect.
November 18th, 2005 at 10:07 pm
Regarding the “mission accomplished” comment:
Sometime in the summer of 1944, the British government concluded that the V-1 missile attacks that had been plaguing London had been effectively suppressed. It was officially announced that “the battle of London is over.”
Almost immediately thereafter, a new kind of missile began to hit London: the V-2, which was impossible to shoot down. There were, no doubt, many sarcastic comments about the “battle of London is over” announcement.
I guess that if today’s “progressives” had been around, they would have seized on this as a reason for impeaching Churchill and his entire war cabinet, and negotiating a settlement that would have left Nazi Germany in existence.
November 18th, 2005 at 11:10 pm
TrackBack by All Things Beautiful The ‘Cut and Run’ Prescription for Iraq
November 19th, 2005 at 5:05 am
Anchoress said, “Okay…but be that as it may, we are THERE now. Do we cut and run and leave these people in a lurch, to their murderers? No way. We can debate whether or not we should be there forever. You can impeach Bush later. Right now, we HAVE to stay and fight. We owe these people that.”
Just for the record, I don’t support “cut and run” and I don’t support impeaching George Bush. But we do need a plan to get out of there at some point and devote our energies to dismantle the terrorist’s network’s.
November 19th, 2005 at 11:33 am
My understanding is that there IS a plan and has been a plan for some time, to begin withdrawing some troops in 2006, after the December elections…that we will slowly withdraw, incrementally, until the Iraqis are able to fully function on their own…which sounds reasonable. It cannot be done with “dates.”
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Just as we keep reading that Valerie Plame was “covert” even though she was sitting at a desk at Langley status “classified” not “covert” we also keep reading “Bush has no plan…”
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There is a plan. Folks just don’t want to hear it. The democrats KNOW there is a plan and that’s one of the reasons the talk loudly about Pulling out - so that when it finally starts happening, they can take the credit.
November 19th, 2005 at 2:17 pm
Well, now we have our skewed debate and our House vote. Was it good theater, or what? And the only thing “on anybody’s head”, is that marvelous motley cap with the three little bells.
November 19th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
I think the only one wearing a motley cap with three bells around here Joseph is you.
November 19th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
OK, the dems had a chance to show their committment to cut and run but cut and run and voted not to remove the troops. 403-3. Now can we get on with winning the war? Of course they want to argue about the meaning of the word “is” saying the Murtha amendment was not for immediate withdrawl. Funny, the MSM all had headlines that Murtha was calling for immediate withdrawl. Of course they might not have had all the intelligence information that the left had when they made those headlines.
The left hates to vote and be held accountable for their votes. It is always because of someone else or something else that prevents them from changing on a dime in the middle of a war. I watched this act before when things go a little tough in Vietnam. The cut and run people prefer to hide when it is time stand for something which is why they are also on the side of any and all things that do not require personal responsibility.
November 20th, 2005 at 6:20 am
I get a kick out of those who love to throw out those “left” charges. As if “left” is un-American. I know it’s kind of hard for many here to fathom, but it’s not a sin to be liberal, and believe it or not, liberal’s can even have love for their country. I know the majority here could never accept that notion, but it’s true.
November 20th, 2005 at 8:16 pm
It is not the “cut and run” party — it is the “genocide is better than war” party.
War is bad. Genocide is bad.
Which is worse. Everybody who voted in 1996 for Clinton voted for the 1994 “no genocide” lie, to avoid the War to Liberate Rwanda (and the expensive nation building afterward — Reps are also guilty of not noting Clinton’s policy result).
Everybody who supported US Out Now in Vietnam, supported N. Viet commie victory, and commie genocide.
When the policy you support is followed, you’re stuck having supported the bad (and good) results of the policy.
Unreal Perfection is not the option.
November 20th, 2005 at 10:25 pm
As if “left” is un-American.
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Not just that. I see a henhouse every time some leftista protest the war in the streets.
November 21st, 2005 at 3:03 am
You really don’t understand the distinction being made here between liberal and leftist, do you Lyle?
November 21st, 2005 at 6:20 am
smmtheory said, “You really don’t understand the distinction being made here between liberal and leftist, do you Lyle?”
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It’s true, I have not been able to distinguish to which degree of hostility between those two words is greater here.
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Here’s a quote from a thoughtful President Bush that he said on his current trip, “I heard somebody say, well, maybe so-and-so is not patriotic because they disagree with my position. I totally reject that thought,” Bush said. “This is not an issue of who’s patriotic and who’s not patriotic. It’s an issue of an honest, open debate about the way forward in Iraq.”
November 21st, 2005 at 6:34 am
I have to agree with you, Anchoress-we HAVE to finish this. Whether or not we should have started it is a separate issue entirely. We’re there now, and heaven help us if we don’t finish what we set out to do. Withdrawl is completely inappropriate at this time.
November 21st, 2005 at 1:12 pm
Withdrawal=quitting=chickens.
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‘Nuff said.
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Anyone who wants to “cut and run” is a coward. No qualms about it.
November 22nd, 2005 at 9:17 am
Newton, you’re too funny. Man. Spade’s a spade, eh? LOL.
Spudly, I know when I use the terminology you absolutely love so well= *Liberals* *left* *leftist*, it ususally depends on context whether it’s identifying a side of the argument or is really a dirty word.
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I don’t know if you would admit this or not, but there are quite a few Dems or Liberals that don’t necessarily represent your Liberal views. They would cut and run, and beg to differ the meaning- you don’t support an immediate w/drawal. Those to the left of you- they are not looking out for the welfare of the American people and really seem- unPatriotic, IMhumbleO.
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You don’t think anyone can be unPatriotic? Or, unAmerican? Or, Leftist?
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I’ll go out on a limb and say that there are many on the Right that don’t represent me- and that’s the major difference between Left and Right. We won’t support those who don’t represent us and will get rid of them, even if they carry the same *label8 as we do. We infight- and that lock-step attitude so prided by the Left, well- we seem to have our own minds over here. No disrespect intended. I like a healthy range- not just a single-mindedness.
November 23rd, 2005 at 5:29 am
Newton said,”Anyone who wants to “cut and run” is a coward. No qualms about it.”
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Newton, you are confusing common sense with cowardice. They are not one and the same. Do actually think John Murtha is a coward?
November 23rd, 2005 at 9:00 am
I think Murtha is a coward Lyle.
November 6th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
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