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April 17, 2007“Throw a desk, a heavy book, make him flinch…”Continuing our discussion of last night, Buster and I wondered at the fact that, while some classrooms managed to barricade doors against the Virginia Tech shooter, there seemed to be no class ready to ambush the shooter by having heavy textbooks (or desks) ready to throw at him - “if they’d just gotten him to flinch, just distracted him, they might have taken him down,” Buster said, “and when you’ve got someone down, it’s so easy to kill him.” “Well, to restrain him,” I corrected, “until he could be taken into custody.” “No, to kill him,” Buster said. “Why keep him alive, so he can become someone’s hero and spend 70 years on the public dole, running one appeal after another?” Since the 17 year old was clearly not of a mind to discuss the finer points of John Paul II’s thoughts on the death penalty, and I do understand that it takes the passing of some time, in the face of such a terrible story, to let go of anger and think another way, the conversation quickly drifted into the fact that the entire student body was unarmed. I mentioned this piece to Buster, written by a law-abiding gun owner who is unable to bring his weapon to the campus, for fear of expulsion. “So,” Buster mused, “as ever, the shooter is not a licensed gun owner, but the licensed gun owner is too busy being respectful of the law to be of any use. A responsible gun owner who is trained to use his weapon is rendered impotent. The law might stop a good guy from making a bad choice, but it’s never stopped a bad guy from being a bad guy.” “One of life’s many paradoxes,” I said, wishing he’d let me get back to dozing. He wouldn’t. Now that his mind was engaged once again in the idea of fighting back against a random shooter he wanted to discuss the various means by which a shooter may be taken down, and the relative benefits of refining one’s touch with a purposeful blade, even when going up against a Glock. Buster’s initial reaction was that Mom was kind of a scary broad, but a few minutes later he said, “teach me that stuff…” No, I don’t intend to train my son to the blade, nor do I recommend anyone else do it. But, this all has me thinking…in a perfect world, we should not need weapons, nor fighting science…and yet as we see, daily, the world is an imperfect place, and all of our best impulses toward peace may be thwarted at any time by someone with another idea. My son is not exactly a kid who wanders around wondering how he can kill people with the tools at hand, and I’d certainly prefer that he bring his mind around to “restraining and detaining” a bad guy rather than taking his or her life, but sometimes I wonder if we have gone too far in teaching our children that “fighting is bad.” I did that. I taught my children, when they were small, that fighting was bad, that there were better ways to achieve peace and understanding than through fisticuffs. I remember being appalled one day to learn that a neighbor had taught my Elder Son - who was being bothered by an older, bullying, boy - how to punch someone in the solar plexus. “You make sure you hurt him and get him down on the first punch,” she had instructed him, “because you don’t want him getting up.” I was appalled until the day my son needed to use exactly that technique to save himself, and he did well. After that we invested in a punching bag, and training gloves, to good effect. And curiously, the day of the bully never again did dawn. But had it…we all would have been ready. Maybe we can never be completely ready for what comes at us. But we shouldn’t tra-la through life mindlessly unprepared, either. Dymphna dares to recall history while some would suggest that - here’s a surprise - this all happened because of Iraq. And what do you know, Keith Olbermann is blaming it all on Bush. Really, how pathetic is that? And seemingly mistaken, too. Cobb, to whom I do not link enough, has a typically thoughtful and provocative post on being a protector, and holding one’s manhood cheap. Excellent read. Lastly, Theodore Dalrymple writes that things are not hunky dory in gun-controlled England. http://theanchoressonline.com/2007/04/17/throw-a-desk-a-heavy-book-make-him-flinch/trackback/ 37 Responses to ““Throw a desk, a heavy book, make him flinch…”” |
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April 17th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
I’m hoping very much that you and I and a number of other ‘Grey’ people get in trouble in the blogosphere for making this very point. Self-defense is righteous and sometimes the best defense is offensive.
My short story is that I’m a big brother, and I’ve always known that I would always have to protect my younger sibs, no matter what. And so I’ve grown up to be that guy who breaks up bar fights and stops chain snatchings in the NY subway. It’s a dangerous instinct, but I’ve got it.
Now is a good time to reread Bill Whittle’s essay, and remember that there are a lot of Americans for whom courage is a necessary virtue. We wish we could have been there because we would have tried something, anything.
I will not be hesitating to teach my children something from this. I’m a bit ashamed that people had to die in this media storm for that lesson to be pressed upon me, but it’s better than the alternative.
People are always saying that they can be satisfied with their life’s work if it can be said to have touched one person. What a difference saving a whole life makes.
April 18th, 2007 at 12:46 am
What the deuce?…
So just now, I’m a bit drowsy and thinking of turning in, reading along at the Anchoress’ blog about the proper response when one comes under fire… Wait a second. You know the Anchoress, right? Sweet Irish lass from Long……
April 18th, 2007 at 1:12 am
I don’t subscribe to the “from now on, nothing is ever safe again” reaction. These tragedies (Columbine, 9/11, DC sniper) don’t usually affect how I feel about, say, flying or being in tall buildings or going to class. But I have to say: this afternoon I was sitting in my dorm room going over notes for a presentation and found myself wondering if I could move the wardrobe in front of my door if necessary. That thought more than anything spooked me. I’m a little older than Buster, but I feel your concern over the reactions of young people. Something’s up with me; whether it’s because I’ve been so coldhearted or because I’m not as much any more, I don’t know. But I appreciate your blogging about this.
April 18th, 2007 at 1:35 am
My son was being physically picked on while in middle school. I told him he had two options - the first was to take the heel of his hand and drive his attacker’s nose back up into his head. When he expressed his horror at this, I suggested the second option was that he tell the bully that this was the last day this would happen, that they could both walk down to the dean’s office and have it out. And the hazing stopped. Then we discussed what to do if he were truly in danger, all of the spots he could hit, twist, or bite. Always be the one to walk away and call 911.
He’s now a college student in the mid-west. We were talking earlier today [Tuesday] about the shootings in Virginia. He’s a good shot, but there’s no concealed carry on his campus. He does use a cane some days, and has some training in using it as a weapon. [He had to tell some friends that there’s no sword inside the cane, and that would be very illegal!] His concern with the shootings was that there seemed to be so little resistance to the shooter, except for the Jewish professor and only a few others. The thought was that so few students today seem to have any knowledge of weapons or that they can defend themselves with objects they have with or around them - books, desks, computers, even pens and pencils. Now, everyone give your kids a hug. And say a prayer. And Anchoress, please be well.
April 18th, 2007 at 2:25 am
Ah, the knife wielding advice could have come from Duncan McKinzie, as he coached Claire…
But, sometimes preparing for the worst, (which may include ending someone’s life,) is a bit of mental/physical preparation that gives one a choice.
I had a self defense instructor (who believe me, could VERY easily kill an armed man bare handed) tell the class about the time that he was held up, at gun point, and his wallet was taken. What struck me, though, was that he said that he looked at the guy, made a determination that it was the wallet he was after, and he gave it to him. The thief left, no one was hurt. However, the three others with him went through terrible trauma over the event, requiring extensive counciling, although HE was the one under gunpoint.
He did not suffer similarly, he said, because nothing was taken from him. He gave the wallet - a clear choice for him.
He went on to talk about sociopaths. In those cases, he said, if you don’t think and move, you will be dead. You may get hurt anyway, but your chances of survival increase, with decisive action. BTW, Cho fit his description of sociopathic behaviour to a T.
In that case, he said, that the choice was always with the individual, but if action was your choice, you must hurt him first, and hurt him badly, badly enough that you could turn your back and walk away, without risk.
The use of violence in that way takes some real soul searching, but having done that work, you come to that place of choice. Those kids at VT did not have that choice.
It is notable that one of professors who did make that choice, and died while saving his students, was a Holocaust survivor. I’ll bet that he had thought through the issue of life and death and choice long before, and made the choice to spend his life for his students.
I’m sorry, “restraining and detaining” is a pipe dream in the face of this kind of madness. The alternative, however, does require you to take your soul out and look at it.
I pray for the victims, the families, and Cho, too.
April 18th, 2007 at 2:36 am
Skeeter, now that you mention it, you’re very right - I’d forgotten that part of Outlander, and my talk with Buster was along those lines (albeit without physical instruction). Was it Duncan who instructed Claire? I thought it was Jamie Fraser. I’ll have to re-read it!
April 18th, 2007 at 2:54 am
Well, now I have to look it up - no, I was mistaken. Not Jamie, not Duncan, but Rupert. Starts on Page 344.
Shouldn’t you be in bed, resting?
April 18th, 2007 at 2:58 am
I’m heading back to bed now. Awoke because I slept and slept so much yesterday that I simply can’t sleep anymore. I’ll have to go amuse myself with a reread. Heh…Gabaldon missed the brachial artery and nerve part!
On consideration, though, I think I will edit my words a little bit…every time I re-read what I’ve written I get leery that someone might stupidly try to “practice” these things. I don’t want to put that into anyone’s head.
April 18th, 2007 at 3:06 am
Anchoress, I swear!
With all the sites on the web, do you really think that this will be the first place that all the crazies will come to learn the finer points of knife fighting?
The other side of it is you might save someone’s life with that bit of information.
Besides, they can always get it from OUTLANDER; I even gave the page number.
Dangerous stuff, that.
April 18th, 2007 at 3:10 am
I know, but even when I wrote it out I wondered if I should pull back a little - on re-reading, yeah. I’m so glad you reminded me of Outlander though because I needed something different to read as I lay about, and just checking out these pages got me sucked right into it, again. I do wonder if Murtagh isn’t right, though, that poison is more ladylike!
April 18th, 2007 at 3:31 am
Glad to hear that I am not the only one who drags out old beloved books and re-reads them. Better than a teddy bear! Sleep well, A.
April 18th, 2007 at 3:39 am
“…in a perfect world, we should not need weapons, nor fighting science…”
But as you noted, this is not a perfect world, and the relentless, blind attempts to treat it as a perfect world in defiance of all facts and logic have brought about a greater degree of imperfection than mortal flesh can bear.
Before all else, be armed! — Niccolo Machiavelli
April 18th, 2007 at 5:22 am
The old saw is, “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.” Better to be ready and never have to respond than to be unprepared and find yourself unable to defend yourself.
I think nearly every mother wants her children to NOT fight. That’s the maternal human instinct, I think. But we must know how to fight or we are forever at the mercy of those who are willing to attack.
Nobody attacks the strong, but they do attack the weak. When we show strength, even if we do not have to use that strength, we deter the “drive-by attacker” who move on to easier targets.
I wonder how, in this age of violent video games and appallingly violent horror films, the students at VT could not think of some way to go after that creep? Heck, any fan of John Wayne films would know at least how to throw something.
April 18th, 2007 at 6:11 am
[…] Addendum: Ed Morrissey recently described the Anchoress, as the kindest soul on the Internet. I do not argue. If Cox et al find John Derbyshire too violent, maybe they might heed the her call, to “Throw a desk, a heavy book, make him flinch…“ […]
April 18th, 2007 at 8:26 am
God bless you Anchoress for giving us your thoughtful take on these horrible events.
Why does it surprise you that the President is being blamed. The Euroweenies are blaming CHARLTON HESTON for heaven’s sakes.
Rest, be well. I think I love Buster - in fact I know I do. Remarkable children you’ve raised.
April 18th, 2007 at 9:02 am
I have linked to your remarkable and insightful posts.
April 18th, 2007 at 9:05 am
Several important issues come to mind from the VA Tech killings:
1 Designating colleges as “gun free zones”
VA has the most liberal policies about concealed carry. Few restrictions remain. Schools are one.
In Utah, teachers with concealed carry permits can bring guns to school.
Concealed carry holders have about the LOWEST crime rate of any group.
In Israel, arming teachers has almost eliminated school massacres.
So allowing concealed carry in schools is not so”far out” as some claim.
And Holocaust survivor who was killed might have lived if he was armed.
2 “Civil liberties”
a I have heard (unconfirmed) that VA Tech doesn’t have survelience cameras because of concerns about “civil liberties”.
b Teacher interviewed on NPR said she had serious concerns about killer because of his writing and behavior.
Teachers are often good judges of students’s character (my wife was one).
She was concerned enough about student that she called authorities and police. Response:
“We can’t do anything because he hasn’t threatened anyone”.
3 Gun sales.
This student should have had at least a mental health examination. Perhaps certification would have placed him on a “watch list”. Of course, this could be abused by having enemies certified to make them more vulnerable because they couldn’t buy guns.
4 Religion?
Report is that he had “Ismael Axe” tatooed on his arm - this is Koran version of Abrahan’s story. NPR said he had conflicts with his parents about religion. GASP - can’t tell whole story because if might “offend” someone.
5 Cops
Personal communication with Mike Tremoglie, former Philly cop
He believes that one reason cops hesitate to storm building where shooting is occurring is they fear not only for their own safety, but they fear accusations of “excessive force” and “profiling” and other consequences if they do take out a shooter, or, perhaps, shoot the wrong person etc..
April 18th, 2007 at 10:33 am
We MUST Understand — Or It Will Happen Again…
When I heard of the Virginia Tech shootings, I couldn’t help but cry over both the victims and the killer, Cho Seung-Hui. A couple of months ago, I read Mark Ames’ book, Going Postal: Rage, Murder, and Rebellion: From Reagan’s Workplaces to Clinton…
April 18th, 2007 at 10:37 am
[…] by happycrow in Hurting People (Retail), Happycrow. trackback Moments after having given some pretty decent combat knife advice… Buster’s initial reaction was that Mom was kind of a scary broad, but a few minutes later he […]
April 18th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Why The Delay At Virginia Tech?…
Many are wondering why the university took so long in notifying students of the danger on campus. Here’s the answer from the NYT: After two people, Emily Jane Hilscher, a freshman, and Ryan Clark, the resident adviser whose room was…
April 18th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Oh, Anchoress!!! You shock me. I never would have had you tagged as a blade-mistress.
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I’m learning my bladework in fencing class. Where did you learn yours?
April 18th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
I have no problem with people defending themselves, but most of these people had little time to react. The guy walked in and started shooting. Remember, we were not there.
April 18th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
knowing self-defence is so important, being on the small side myself, I learned how to take care of my self from the local cowboys first. I then learned more being a police cadet in my late teens and early twenties, but I learned the absolute most from my Green Beret cousin home on leave from Japan. I hope I never have to use it but if I do I fully intend to be the one left standing! I’ll lay odds on the lady A learning self defense from someone with military experince or the mob, but I say military.
April 18th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
I hardly think that Theodore Dalrymple’s title for the article, ‘The British Way of Murder’ is entirely accurate or come to that, appropriate. As far as I’m aware (as a Brit living in England), standing on a neighbours doorstep and blasting them with a shot gun due to a dispute culminating in a disagreement over parking spaces has not become a national pastime.
While gun crime is on the rise, and while it is indeed a serious concern, it
has hardly become a ‘way’ and certainly not a ‘British way to murder’.
April 18th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Boys, Guns, and the Stress of School…
One of my favorite toys growing up was a Dick Tracy ™ cap gun. It was bigger than a derringer but smaller than a Wild West “six-gun.” It fit neatly into the pocket of my jacket or my pants, which was quite handy when I was running around the neigh…
April 18th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Don’t be shocked, dear A, but I like the way Buster thinks. If I ever get caught in a bad situation, I hope your son is close by to help me!!!
Glad you are feeling enough better that you can blog even a bit.
April 19th, 2007 at 12:36 am
I’m glad you posted on this issue. One man armed only with two handguns should not have been able to shoot 60 people, especially in groups.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Great thoughts! Children are amazing - especially at the times they break through the drivel they are fed at school and exhibit real discernment.
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I just KNEW you were a closet Xena. Us short women are like that, you know. Never underestimate us!
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Sweet dreams and healing rest. You’re still at the top of my prayer list.
April 19th, 2007 at 9:57 am
as a person who has had, on numerous occasions, barrels pointed in his general direction, i can say that throwing a book or desk or whatever to make him flinch is easily said then done when fear takes over. our culture is addicted to violence and always will be because it sells.
April 19th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Anchoress, thanks for this.
The topic of THROWING THINGS, as a response to situations like this, is something I’ve blogged about a lot. The self-defense possibilities are much greater than most people realize.
You might find this post interesting…
http://www.randomjottings.net/archives/002529.html
April 19th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Thoughts on Passivity on Patriots Day…
I don’t know what I would do if faced with a mad killer with a gun Mark Steyn writes A Culture of Passivity is an existential threat to our society They’re not “children.”… We should be raising them to understand that there …
April 20th, 2007 at 1:56 am
I went to Guilford College, a small Quaker-affiliated school in NC in the ’80s. Along with a lot of leftist professors, we had a high percentage of continuing education students finishing their degrees in Administration of Justice. They were off-duty cops, and they sometimes came to class in their uniforms and generally carried their weapons. Freaked the heck out of the pinko profs, but I got very comfortable with it. Who would you rather have with a gun than a trained, responsible, off-duty cop? Most of us good Southern kids felt very safe with our cop classmates. Cho wouldn’t have gotten very far at Guilford.
April 20th, 2007 at 6:23 am
The wife and I discussed this the other day. I wondered how some of the survivors could lie on the floor and listen to another human getting snuffed in the next room. How could they not at least try to distract him by running by and pounding on the door, screaming, whatever? I don’t know if it would have made a difference but I felt it should have been tried, otherwise you spend the rest of your life hearing those sounds.
My wife made the point that sort of behavior is normally encountered in someone trained for action; police, the military, etc. She feels it’s all too normal to lie on the floor hoping the evil storm will pass by.
Guess she’s right but I wonder if things aren’t changing. Since 9/11/01 we’ve been confronted with too many instances of what happens when you remain passive, this VT shooting being the latest. Seems that more folks are waking up to the fact that their salvation is in their own hands and no one else’s.
Just my opinion.
Great post Anchoress, get well soon.
April 22nd, 2007 at 5:18 pm
[…] Spotted this elsewhere: […]
April 22nd, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Actually, in this day and age, if I had kids, I certainly WOULD teach them to fight. I would teach them to use weapons—even the unlikely kinds, such as a simple pencil—both to incapacitate and to kill, and teach them to be able to decide which to do. The church teaches that it is certainly permissible, and sometimes even our duty, to incapacitate or kill someone in order to save an innocent life.
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I grew up in Brooklyn. My father grew up in Hell’s Kitchen in the 1920s and 30s, when it truly earned its name. He taught me to fight, but only when my mother wasn’t looking, because she disapproved. He stopped short of teaching me to kill if it became necessary, because my mother absolutely forbade it. It was an omission I had cause to regret in later years.
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Reason, talk, etc., are certainly preferable to fighting, and detaining is certainly preferable to injuring, but sometimes neither is feasible or even possible. Anchoress, with your knowledge of how to kill someone in self-defense, you may be doing your son a great disservice by not teaching him what you know, though, of course, that decision is yours alone to make.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:10 am
[…] Sage on April 23rd, 2007 People don’t stop killers. People with guns do . Otherwise you have to throw a desk, a heavy book, make him flinch …or just become another sad statistic. I know which I […]
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
[…] THE ANCHORESS: “No, I don’t intend to train my son to the blade, nor do I recommend anyone else do it. But, this all has me thinking…in a perfect world, we should not need weapons, nor fighting science… and yet as we see, daily, the world is an imperfect place, and all of our best impulses toward peace may be thwarted at any time by someone with another idea” …. (anchoress) […]