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May 21, 2007What two weeks may yieldSo, the Senate has decided - wisely - to open the floor for two weeks of debate on the immigration bill. What may two weeks yield in our present age of screaming emotionalism, ranting and bullying which currently dominates our political discourse? Well…seems to me that if people exert positive energy in a a good-faith attempt to talk to their representatives - not to jump ugly, not to threaten, not to harass, not to scream at - but to talk…and if their representatives will listen - not placate, not patronize, not “handle” but really listen…and then if both voters and legislators will actively pursue a few pragmatic, real-life, workable ideas (and agree that reform and restructure of the INS is a prime concern), then maybe two weeks can yield something that can be useful, even if no one gets “exactly” what they want. Two weeks…it’s not much time. For anything fruitful to develop, everyone concerned will have to bring maturity to the table, will have to leave off the invective, the name-calling, the adolescent jeering. But if folks can do that - and if politicians can get serious - two weeks may be the difference between something that is simply “a start” and something that is “a healthy start.” Someone wrote to me, “I still love you, but on this issue we disagree strongly.” She added, with the first inklng of a positive remark in days, “lets think about what can be done that won’t change this country…” Well, the “won’t” is a negative, but I understand that she’s also saying, “let’s think about what can be done for the good.” Accent-u-ate the positive. Yes…we have two weeks. Everyone has had a few days of screaming and yelling, of hyperventilating an predicting the end of the nation and the world. Now, let’s stop all that - let’s stop emoting and gasping - and hunker down and get serious. Let’s think - not about what “should” be done, or what “must” be done or what “I want” done - but about what CAN be done, let’s take the world as it is, not at you or I wish it would be, and see what CAN be done. Let’s look at the way the hard left is fuming and stomping about the Democrats possibly, finally getting around to funding the war they voted in and let’s remember that we do not want to behave like that. The bill, as it stands, is flawed - of course it is flawed - but what did the Republicans think was going to happen when they decided in November to stay home or “vote my principles” or “lose in ‘06 to win in ‘08?” Did they think the Democrats would do not take advantage of their majority? Did they think the president would be able to bring home the sort of immigration reform they envisioned with a Democrat controlled, GOP/wimp minority congress? We could today be looking at something much, much worse than what is currently being proposed on immigration and be powerless to stop it. Elections matter. I’d be happier if Bush hadn’t cut the back-taxes issue, but I understand why he did it. Such taxes would be almost impossible to calculate, thus lawsuits would follow - all over the place. Perhaps in lieu of back-taxes, some sort of fee or fine could be imposed upon those illegal immigrants wishing to remain and work here…but I’m sure advocacy lawyers would bring suit against those, too. The truth is almost everything the right wants to do on this issue would be countered by lawsuits, which will tie up the courts for decades. The right - if it is smart - will have to really tame itself to consider what is “do-able” and productive and get to work on what will work. Please. Please stop doing nothing while insisting on everything. We have to START somewhere. Two weeks of debate - if it’s honest debate and not more hucksterism from both sides, might bring about something worthwhile. Maxed Out Mama, writes: The “send them all back” crowd are wildly unrealistic; we do need more people with our aging population. Furthermore, a lot of illegals are relatively well-integrated and stable; some have even bought houses and many run businesses. It sure would be nice if we could get them all legalized, filing taxes and voting…Obviously it is a matter of setting rational limits. Jeanette reminds us that not all illegals are Mexican, that Canada has a border, too, and writes: Since we are all armchair Congresscritters and presidents we talk a good game, but when it comes down to it how realistic is it to think you can get [everything you want in an immigration bill] at one time? Both Beth and Little Miss Attila express concern that the right is becoming(like the left) more about emotion and spitefulness than common sense. Hugh Hewitt is thinking up do-able demands AJ seems to be saying that moron Bush is playing the right masterfully. I wish the narrative would settle that either Bush is an idiot or an evil genius…it can’t be both. http://theanchoressonline.com/2007/05/21/what-two-weeks-may-yield/trackback/ 13 Responses to “What two weeks may yield” |
May 21st, 2007 at 10:47 pm
I wish the narrative would settle that either Bush is an idiot or an evil genius…it can’t be both.
It’s funny how some of the same people who were saying that about the BDS-afflicted Left not so long ago seem to have forgotten their own arguments. Makes you kinda wonder how sincere they were in the first place, huh? At least I know I’ve been sincere in my beliefs, unlike these children who have turned around to stomp their feet in a BDS-afflicted frenzy.
Then again, I’ve always thought most bloggers are pretty much full of it, and really have no idea how politics work in practice (like it or not). “Buncha f—in’ amateurs,” I always say (in my oh-so-professional language).
May 21st, 2007 at 10:49 pm
After ranting about this bill, I have the strong thought that it may not matter much. New legislation is being written because the old legislation wasn’t enforced. And, the legislation before that wasn’t enforced. The problem isn’t the legislation, it’s the complete failure of the federal government to do what it is supposed to do in enforcing immigration law. Why should we think the future will be any different?
May 21st, 2007 at 11:46 pm
I wish the narrative would settle that either Bush is an idiot or an evil genius…it can’t be both.
Uh…one from Column A and one from Column B?
May 22nd, 2007 at 12:12 am
Let me do some more “screaming and yelling, of hyperventilating an(d) predicting the end of the nation and the world”.
Anchoress wrote: “The truth is almost everything the right wants to do on this issue would be countered by lawsuits, which will tie up the courts for decades. The right - if it is smart - will have to really tame itself to consider what is “do-able” and productive and get to work on what will work. Please. Please stop doing nothing while insisting on everything.”
So how is “do-able” different from “do nothing”? I believe that what you wrote about the potential lawsuits is 100% accurate, but if anything it makes a solid case for opposing (rather than supporting) this bill. If you will end up with nothing because of lawsuits, why not at least take a stand?
Anchoress wrote: “The bill, as it stands, is flawed - of course it is flawed - but what did the Republicans think was going to happen when they decided in November to stay home or “vote my principles” or “lose in ‘06 to win in ‘08?” Did they think the Democrats would do not take advantage of their majority? Did they think the president would be able to bring home the sort of immigration reform they envisioned with a Democrat controlled, GOP/wimp minority congress?”
First - the bill currently in the Senate is very close to what Bush has talked about for years. In terms of immigration “reform” Bush got the Congress he needed last November.
Second - GOP spinelessness predated last November’s elections. Republicans had solid majorities after the 2004 elections, and used them to do - pretty close to nothing. Aside from Roberts and Alito (two biggies, I know), the GOP spent most of its time groveling before Democrats and the MSM. I don’t have much good to say about stay-at-home-on-Election-day Republicans, but they will not be lured back by more of the same GOP fecklessness that helped to drive them away in the first place.
In a previous thread I mentioned that my wife is a legal immigrant from Africa. My opposition to the bill in the Senate is based upon years of experience dealing with the immigration bureaucracy. By dumping additional millions of applicants on a system that cannot handle the current load this bill will make things worse – not better. I think that most who have had to deal with USCIS will agree that “incompetence” is its motto.
I am not insisting on “everything”. Rather, I am insisting that politicians do not make things worse than they already are. And I am also insisting that potential immigrants who do not happen to live in Latin America be given a fair shake. While it’s true that not all illegals are from Mexico, it is also true that not all potential immigrants are from Mexico, either. How about some consideration for them?
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:10 am
The pro-illegal immigration marches of a year ago are etched in my mind. In them we got a glimpse of reality in a spontaneous display of unfiltered honesty - before the public relations handlers ‘educated’ the masses in how to control the image they project. That so many who are in the country illegally would so audaciously march with demands was a very disturbing eye opener.
It was a very revealing display - quite the opposite attitude of what I would expect for for people allegedly wanting to assimilate into a culture.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:30 am
Yes! What a good idea! I will point out though, that there are already fines- not insubstantial ones. $5000 isn’t pocket change. At $10/hour (which would be a very good wage indeed) that’s 500 hours of work. My concern with that is that many will stay illegal b/c they can’t afford it-which gains us nothing. I’ll also state that there’s a portion-0how many we don’t know-who ARE paying taxes. They’re paying them thru fake Social Security numbers-required by emplooyers to “cover themselves”. Sometimes the employer provides the number, to avoid tax fraud-sometimes the immigrant may have access. But let’s not forget that some of them are, already, paying taxes-just not in their own name.
Ahh, the difference a couple centuries make!
I’m excited about the bill-it’s a compromise, sure, and likely there will be more compromises required-but anything is a good start.
Although, this is coming from one “dirty, degenerate Irish who wants to change our ways” from another
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:53 am
You hit the nail on the head here: can folks come in and converse with maturity leaving emotionality and juvenile behavior at home? I sincerely hope so.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:12 am
Web Reconnaissance for 05/22/2007…
A short recon of whats out there that might draw your attention….
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:26 am
The thing is that this is not a fringe minority having a temper tantrum. This is about two-thirds of the voters (and not just Republicans) demanding better border enforcement:
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchd74c
Once the border is better enforced, people will be reasonable about dealing with illegal aliens who have been here for a long time or have American children. But with no effort to stop more people from coming in, how is this amnesty different from the one in 1986, which also had unenforced security measures? This new bill even weakens the fence act that was passed last year. We’ve reached the point where we’re demanding a show of good faith from the government, since they’ve shown so much bad faith on this issue in the past. That’s not unreasonable.
And for people who have been “living in the shadows” (which is a pretty funny description, given that they are getting social security cards, opening bank accounts, buying property, enrolling their children in public schools…) the situation has been like this for years. The current rush to resolve it is entirely artificial. No, we can’t allow the status quo forever, but rushing a bill that will cost taxpayers 2.5 trillion dollars (http://minx.cc/?post=227308), where we have no reasonable expectation of the security measures being enforced - so the problem will only get worse - is much worse than the status quo. As to the fact that they pay taxes; yes, many do - by some estimates about half do, but let’s be generous and say 100%. What they are paying into the system is still a great deal less than what they are taking out; we lose about $18,000 per illegal alien. (http://minx.cc/?post=227258)
There is very little to like about this legislation, and the enforcement first demands are not unreasonable or fringe. What is unreasonable is our elected officials ignoring the wishes of the majority of the people who put them in office - especially when the people are demanding enforcement of the very laws those officials have passed. Who’s working for whom, here?
By the way - I love the new look, and it’s very cool the way you have the graphic in the comment field - nice touch!
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:36 am
I think it is the fringe having a tantrum, in this sense - yes, many people want better border enforcement; I’m one of them. It’s an entirely sensible position to have, and it is a no-brainer that the majority of Americans want better enforcement.
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The fringe is carrying on about “collecting scalps” and descending into invective and churlish, useless name-calling…it’s the fringe who are writing and telling me I am a traitor to the country, that I should move to Mexico and have bi-lingual babies, etc, etc.
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My fear is the fringe will become - like Koskidz - a permanent screaming voice on the right, infecting every single issue with high drama and angst…and that thought is just unbearable!
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Glad you like the design, I’m particularly taken with the comments graph, too! Phin did a great job!
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:37 am
I think it is the fringe having a tantrum, in this sense - yes, many people want better border enforcement; I’m one of them. It’s an entirely sensible position to have, and it is a no-brainer that the majority of Americans want better enforcement.
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The fringe is carrying on about “collecting scalps” and descending into invective and churlish, useless name-calling…it’s the fringe who are writing and telling me I am a traitor to the country, that I should move to Mexico and have bi-lingual babies, etc, etc.
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My fear is the fringe will become - like Koskidz - a permanent screaming voice on the right, infecting every single issue with high drama and angst…and that thought is just unbearable!
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Glad you like the design, I’m particularly taken with the comments graph, too! Phin did a great job!
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:44 am
It has occurred to me that one way to prop up Social Security is to add many new accounts. I am 70, it won’t matter to me but my youngest sibling is 58, it might matter to her and to my children. I do hope by that time though there will be personal investment accounts for everyone to share the growth of the country through investments.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:20 pm
I agree having two weeks to discuss it will give people time to read it. Seeing how both those on the left and those on the right say they will use that time to remove the parts they don’t like means it does not stand a snowballs chance in hades of passing. But that may be the best thing. If it passed as it is, it would be too easy for the left to remove the things conservatives might like if they take the white house in 2009