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April 20, 2008No, Malkin is not MaherFor cryin’ out loud, Michelle Malkin is not Bill Maher - not even close - not even in the same time-zone, and I think that is a silly charge to make - one that over-reacts in precisely the same way that some feel Michelle over-reacted. But I can understand why some were unhappy with her post on “Open Borders and the Catholic Elite”, which echoed SOME the sort of cynical crap I’ve seen in nasty emails when I have dared to go against “the base” on illegal immigration. I was very sorry to read, “Open borders benefit Catholic churches looking to fill their pews and collection baskets,” and “Catholic elites can afford to harangue us about our perceived lack of “humanity…” I completely agree with Michelle that America remains “the most generous and welcoming nation in the world to those who line up and play by the rules,” and I despise the sort of Catholic who runs around pointing fingers and screeching “heretic, heretic!” at another. I also agree with her that the issue urgently needs addressing and realistic solutions; where we part is more in method and means than in meaning. I was disappointed to read some of what she wrote, but Michelle has strong opinions and she’s certainly entitled to speak them. We do not all, always and at all times, have to agree. Where people disagree on this issue, their disagreement should be permissible without rancor or venom. My own position on the illegal immigration - that we need to enforce the borders, but also to create a sort of Ellis Island West and that we cannot ever forget the humanity of these people - is pretty much in line with the bishops, and I can tell you that it is not motivated by a desire to “sit asses in the pews,” as some have accused me. I think it would be odd indeed to hear clergymen (or the pope) suggest anything less than - first and foremost - concern for the well-being of the human person, and then for the practical and political solutions. And I would suggest I am far from being a member of the “Catholic Elite,” whatever that means. Hell, I liked the Gregorian Chant mixed with tribal rhythms that upset some Catholics a few says ago! The illegal immigration issue has not been particularly well served by breathlessness. It needs to be addressed. Every day the need becomes more pressing…and nothing is happening on that front. I don’t think much will until people on every side can manage to take a breath and find some common ground. That should not be impossible. But the rhetoric surrounding illegal immigration is sometimes a bit much - even out of control - as one can see in ANY comments section of ANY blog that covers it. http://theanchoressonline.com/2008/04/20/no-malkin-is-not-maher/trackback/ 12 Responses to “No, Malkin is not Maher” |
April 20th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
ANchoress I guess I disagree with you a tad. Michille Malkin, Tancredo, and Lou Dobbs should be called out to a certain degree.
I hope to do my small part soing that this afternoon. Dobbs and Tancredo’s comments were very misleading.
I realize that Michelle has strong feelings. She also has quite a history on this issue. The Catholic Bishops were very much behinds Bushes bill that was a compromise. A lot of Catholic and I might add a ton of Evangelical Christians want secure borders, security, a sane and Christian way to deal with the people here. Many of us that supported that position are not the open borders, delete the borders crowd. However Michelle Malkin and had no small part in perpetuating that myth as well as not exploring the Catholic Churches complex position and the moral principles that it says we must consider.
THe difference between Bill Maher and Malkin is that Maher is a entertainor that uses controversy and often taken with a grain of salt. Malkin is in the public square. Maher does not sub for Fox Cable News Host. Malkin Does. Maher does not have a national Column. Malkin does.
I did not know I was part of the Catholic “elite” (I thought Republicans were against playing the class card”trill I read her column. It is a huge moral issue and I think Michelle and others should be held accountable. Whe She is not the worst offender. However she was not a calm voice in this matter over the years and she nothing but to exploit the attacks
One final thought. THought Malkin, and the ususal suspects would like to do it notice they don’t call leading Evangelicals out. THe leader of the Southern Baptist Church that deals with issues like this has talked about sensible reform that are in line with Catholic principles. Leading Evangelicals leaders and leaders on the local level are doing more than Catholics to help migrant workers. The Hispanic population is what is making them grow. However they have not quite figured out a way to attack and misrepresent these people’s positions because it might backfire on them. It is much easier to attack the Pope, Bishops, etc.
If this was Malkins first comments I would be more forgiving. However they are not and thus I don’t see some people’s views as a overeaction.
April 20th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
The disagreement is that Jesus taught that we should “render unto Ceasar.”
And you keep insisting that it’s okay for illegals to flout our laws - all of them. Their presence is illegal. Their living conditions are illegal. Many of their extra-work activities are illegal. There are persons sneaking over our borders who are or have ties to terrorist organizations. The children are not immunized nor do they have good health and sanitary habits.
Why are we not allowed to protect our own citizens?
Who is going to have compassion on the taxpayers who are paying for all the education, healthcare and other benefits? Why is it wrong for them to complain at the overwhelming of their resources?
Granted, we should change the WAY things are done, but until things are changed, people should obey the laws. They are not unjust or evil. You can’t get from the USA to any other country illegally without facing consequences. Why are the Mexicans any different?
Why can’t Mexico improve its own country so it is prosperous and noncorrupt as a country can be? Maybe if their own citizenry is forced to stay there and overwhelm their corrupt government, it’ll be forced to change. Why is another sovereign nation allowed to encourage its citizens to consciously break another country’s laws without impunity?
Sorry, Anchoress, but I believe you are wrong about this.
Compassion is one thing. We practice it aplenty.
Stupidity is totally another thing.
April 20th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Mommynator, for crying out loud, I DO NOT “keep insisting that it’s okay for illegals to flout our laws” and please forgive me for saying that your comment is a good example of just how quickly and discussion on this issue devolves into something useless.
When did I (or the pope or bishops) say we are not allowed to protect our own citizens?
Your frustration is loud and clear…but still…the solutions must be both just to America and humane to these people. And the solution? Heard it yet? Nastiness, snide remarks and temper tantrums are STILL not fixing it. Nastiness, snide remarks and tantrums clearly are not helping. Perhaps it is time to leave them aside?
You are free to disagree with me all you want, and I am free to disagree with you.
But I don’t call you stupid and would prefer you not call me stupid.
April 20th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
My view is not so much Michelle but the unregulated comments getting hateful and ugly. All things come to pass, I guess civilized discussions at mm.com are gone forever now.
April 20th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Mommynator,
I understand your frustration. Many people that support immigration reform shall them. However has anyone looked at actually what Benedict said. Later today I am going to post everything he said on this subject the past 5 days
BUt a good place to start is what he said on the Papal Plane a full transcript here Question 2
http://ncrcafe.org/node/1736
It appears the Pope’s views are a lot more complex and actually mirror your own to some degree. That does not get reported and that is a injustice.
I am now reading the transcript of House Represenative Tancredo speech he did on the FLORR of the US House. It is full of misrepresentations and yes a tad of Pope Bashing. It is breathtaking to me.
Most people Catholic or otherwise are in the sane middle. THey are not part of the delte the border crowd or the deport them all big or small crowd.
THey want sane borders, secure and sane immigration policy. THey also recognize that the we are dealing with 4.1 million children of illegal aliens and of families be broken up. I think it is the Catholic and a wide Christian view that one cannot just say render upon Caesar what is Casesar and chalk all these people up among others as collateral damage. What shall we do with the illegal alien that has been here since like age 4 and knows nothing else. Will he be treated the same as someone that arrived 3 years ago and has a rap sheet. These are the questions that Christians of all faith are trying to find answers too. Yet for those that consider perhaps the 4 years old should be treated different we are called open borders.
IN the end we are responsible and fault lies in a million places. My GOP Senator is a hardliner on immigration. But he knows that without these folks Louisiana and Southern Mississippi would have been a ton of a fix after Katrina and Rita. Especially if a another Hurricane hit.
It is complex and no doubt under any proposal no one will be happy. Under any proposal there will be suffering. However we have to do the best we can and not forget the moral principles that must inform it. That is what the Pope and others are trying to ask us to grapple with
I think what I find offensvie about Michelles’s comments again she is mischaracterizing what I and others belive and are trying to accomplish.
April 20th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Two things:
I saw the Holy Father yesterday on Fifth Avenue. What an amazing experience! Now I feel caught up with Popes since I had seen JPII at Shea Stadium (and witnessed the sunshine come out AS HE APPEARED, in spite of it raining cats and dogs that whole day). This time, I had a few items out that I plan to give as gifts this year, which were religious in nature. The energy of the crowd could be felt. The Secret Service, FBI, NYPD, and the Swiss Guard should all be commended for a fine job of protecting the Holy Father in a way that I thought gave us the space we needed to be close, but kept him (and all of us) safe. I marveled at the logistics of is all, and so did everyone around us.
I was near a reporter from the AP when she asked the “neighbors” we were standing next to for hours whether they “were offended” at not being allowed in the Cathedral. I’m beginning to think they have a gene that makes them try to find something - anything - to complain about. As though it needs to be explained why the Pope should have time with two representatives from every diocese in the country. I mean, would anyone question a CEO who insisted on meeting with his top managers? I am SO GLAD he took the time with the clergy. We need them to be touched by him.
Second, I have never heard another person suggest an Ellis Island West! (This is a multi purpose blog: clear, informative entries, great coffee, and an abundance of common sense!) I have been feeling we need to bring back a central place to PROCESS people, that they cannot possibly, even if they wanted to, know what to do to get here legally. My entire family came through Ellis Island (East) and I’m not quite sure why we ever did away with it. They wouldn’t need a boat load of money for a lawyer, there wouldn’t be a longer-than-needed wait, and we could simply process citizenship papers right there. None of the moving around of shells that goes on now. I think the length people wait now - I know of someone who has been trying to be a naturalized citizen for twelve years!
One thing to share: yesterday I sent a picture of the Holy Father by cell phone (!) and attached Ode to Joy with it. A friend who is about to be ordained a Deacon next month was practicing for a celebratory Mass of some kind in Las Vegas (a truly WONDERFUL diocese, BTW) and they were playing Ode to Joy as he got my text with picture and music. Now, as I am watching the Mass at Yankee Stadium, the Pope finishes Mass to, guess what, Ode to Joy!
April 20th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
[...] also encourage you, the reader, to read The Anchoress’ response as [...]
April 20th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
I heard the Pope to say he wishes the US to have open arms to immigrants, me too. Just not illegal immigrants, which has been the problem and is not limited to Mexican/Spanish speaking which is what would be assumed considering the ‘diversity’ we couldn’t help but noticing with each appearance of the Pope.
While I’m not sold on the idea of amnesty, it’s something to consider if we secure our borders. Personally, I’d like the law abiding to return to their homelands and come in legally. I’d like our government to apprehend those that have broken law beyond entry, to make sure they cannot come in again.
April 20th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
1. Value is determined by supply and demand. A world in which human life is precious is a world in which human life is scarce.
2. The world’s human population cannot grow without limit.
3. The world’s human population will stop growing when either (a) the death rate rises to meet the birth rate or (b) the birth rate falls to meet the death rate.
4. The world’s human population will stop growing as a result of either (a) human agency or (b) other.
5. Human agency is either (a) democratically determined or (b) other.
6. Voluntary programs for population control selectively breed non-compliant individuals.
7. The world’s maximum possible instantaneous population is greater than the world’s maximum sustainable human population. Expect a massive die-back of the human population before the human population stabilizes.
8. The world’s maximum sustainable human population leaves little room for wildlife and open space. Expect a massive loss of biodiversity before the human population stabilizes.
9. Politicians in a democratic polity will not address excess population growth so long as they have a sink into which to dump their excess.
Build a wall.
April 21st, 2008 at 3:19 am
Uh-huh. Again, when did I say a wall shouldn’t be built?
Not to be rude, but it’s tiresome. Easy to spout all the “solutions.”
Go ahead. I’m all for it. Make it happen.
April 21st, 2008 at 9:55 am
I want to clarify a few things.
I am one of the commenters on MM.com and the writer on the blog linked to above. I was not the blogger who likened Malkin to Maher. In fact, I commented to the contrary on my blog.
I also amended my post because my original intention was to call the comments anti-Catholic, not Malkin. I offered an apology on my blog and sent an e-mail to Malkin. Because I am sorry I didn’t choose my words more carefully.
Perhaps it was an over-reaction to say I’m “done” with her, but I would like to see an amendment to the comments policy that would discourage and prevent such threads in the future. Of the 350-plus comments on the original post, 95% of them did not focus on the issue at hand, and many ignored or misconstrued Catholic teaching. Several engaged in leveling accusations against the Holy Father and Catholics in general that were demonstrably false (i.e., the Pope is a Nazi, he’s secretly urging us to vote for the Democrat in November, etc.).
So I just wanted to drop a line and make sure everyone who picks up on this knows the full story - including my apologies to Michelle.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
It may be possible that I am the one responsible for likening Michelle to Bill Maher. I’m currently not aware of anyone else deserving of that title, but in fact neither am I as all I did was to point out how Michelle had joined the ranks of people like Maher when she [IMHO] gratuitously mentioned Pope Bennedict in her topic, “Open Borders and the Catholic Elite” in my topic titled, “HBO Has Got To Go”.
I agree that Michelle is NOT Maher, yet I remain disturbed that she had decided to play the politically correct game of Poke A Pope for no direct reason. She knows better than to do that.
Maybe I am wrong, or maybe Michelle is. I’ll leave it to you to decide.
[edited to admit link - admin]